March 18, 2006
March 18, 2006Someone recently sent me a Calvinist web link and I randomly chose two places to read and found some interesting statements such as the following:
"Predestination is the doctrine that God alone is the One who chooses who is saved, that He ordains the means, the time, and the circumstances of salvation and that without His predestination, no one would ever be saved. In part this is because human nature is so completely corrupted by sin that no person is capable of choosing God unless God first regenerates that person. But any Bible student will soon discover there are verses which say God wants all men to be saved. For example, "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4, NIV). The question, then, is if God predestines only some to salvation, why are there verses that say God wants all to be saved? The answer is simple: The "all" are the Christians."
It's interesting that for Calvinists sometimes "all" only means "some" and specifically just "certain some ones". This conveniently allows them to dismiss all the verses that say God loves “everyone” and doesn't want “any” to perish. Yet they'll claim that Romans 3:23 is proof text for predestination.
…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... Romans 3:23
The plain fact is Romans 3:23 is saying there is no difference between men, we're all in the same boat headed for a fall. No where does it say “there are “saved alls” and there are “unsaved alls.”” There is just “all.”
For some reason when Calvinists quote Romans 3:23 "all" actually means “everyone”. But in other verses "all" doesn't mean "all."
Consider why Calvinists always jump on Romans 3:23 in their spiel. They claim that it shows we're all hopelessly sinners and could never make the choice to choose Christ but while the scriptures do say we're all sinners they don't bear out the Calvinist mantra that we couldn't have the desire or ability to seek God. The desire to know God is within us, after all we were created in God's image. Jesus gives us the power to overcome our sinful nature through His death: For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering" Romans 8:3. Regarding their claim that man is not capable of seeking or chosing God:
As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. Psalm 42:1-2
O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water Psalm 63:1
If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. John 7:37-38
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Matthew 7:7-8
Again I say we have the desire in us, somewhere and that no matter our circumstance or location God is knowable. Paul wrote in Romans:
...since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Paul is saying that God is revealed and knowable in His creation. Paul also tells us that God's salvation is made available to all men.
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men” -Titus 2:11
He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. John 1:7
We're told over and over we have a choice to make and those choices have consequences: Deuteronomy 30:19, Joshua 24:15, 1 King 18:21, Jeremiah 15:19, Jeremiah 29:13-14, Ezekiel 14:6, Ezekiel 33:11, Matthew 6:33, Matthew 7:7-8, Luke 7:50, Luke 13:3, Luke 13:3,John 3:17, John 12:48, John 16:27, Acts 2:38-39, Acts 17:27, Acts 20:21, Romans 3:22-25, Romans 10:9, Hebrews 11:6, James 1:21, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2 note: this is not an all inclusive list..
Then in Romans chapter 3 verse 24 continues…
...and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 3:24
Romans 3:24 is saying we are justified by Christ's sacrifice, it does not say specific individuals were pre-picked before time began. Though God predestined the plan for salvation through Jesus' sacrifice Christ's sacrifice happened after time began and is available for all.
This website had another interesting statement:
"I would like to introduce a couple of terms: Arminianism and Calvinism. Essentially, Arminianism states that man is able, by his own free will, to choose or reject God and that Jesus died for everyone who ever lived. Calvinism states that it is God alone who chooses who is saved, not man, and that Jesus died only for the Christians."
Died only for the Christians? Well, actually you don't become a Christian until you accept Jesus.
Jesus died for sinners, not Christians. If we were already Christians Jesus wouldn't have needed to die for our sins... I guess this is another case where "all" doen't mean "all". I guess we can chuck John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him (not just "Christians" chosen before time began) shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:16-17
Anyway, if it was determined from the begining who would go to hell and who wouldn't then we don't need a savior, Jesus, God could have made what He already determined to happen without sacrificing His son.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
http://www.freewill-predestination.com
"Predestination is the doctrine that God alone is the One who chooses who is saved, that He ordains the means, the time, and the circumstances of salvation and that without His predestination, no one would ever be saved. In part this is because human nature is so completely corrupted by sin that no person is capable of choosing God unless God first regenerates that person. But any Bible student will soon discover there are verses which say God wants all men to be saved. For example, "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4, NIV). The question, then, is if God predestines only some to salvation, why are there verses that say God wants all to be saved? The answer is simple: The "all" are the Christians."
It's interesting that for Calvinists sometimes "all" only means "some" and specifically just "certain some ones". This conveniently allows them to dismiss all the verses that say God loves “everyone” and doesn't want “any” to perish. Yet they'll claim that Romans 3:23 is proof text for predestination.
…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... Romans 3:23
The plain fact is Romans 3:23 is saying there is no difference between men, we're all in the same boat headed for a fall. No where does it say “there are “saved alls” and there are “unsaved alls.”” There is just “all.”
For some reason when Calvinists quote Romans 3:23 "all" actually means “everyone”. But in other verses "all" doesn't mean "all."
Consider why Calvinists always jump on Romans 3:23 in their spiel. They claim that it shows we're all hopelessly sinners and could never make the choice to choose Christ but while the scriptures do say we're all sinners they don't bear out the Calvinist mantra that we couldn't have the desire or ability to seek God. The desire to know God is within us, after all we were created in God's image. Jesus gives us the power to overcome our sinful nature through His death: For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering" Romans 8:3. Regarding their claim that man is not capable of seeking or chosing God:
As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. Psalm 42:1-2
O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water Psalm 63:1
If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. John 7:37-38
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Matthew 7:7-8
Again I say we have the desire in us, somewhere and that no matter our circumstance or location God is knowable. Paul wrote in Romans:
...since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Paul is saying that God is revealed and knowable in His creation. Paul also tells us that God's salvation is made available to all men.
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men” -Titus 2:11
He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. John 1:7
We're told over and over we have a choice to make and those choices have consequences: Deuteronomy 30:19, Joshua 24:15, 1 King 18:21, Jeremiah 15:19, Jeremiah 29:13-14, Ezekiel 14:6, Ezekiel 33:11, Matthew 6:33, Matthew 7:7-8, Luke 7:50, Luke 13:3, Luke 13:3,John 3:17, John 12:48, John 16:27, Acts 2:38-39, Acts 17:27, Acts 20:21, Romans 3:22-25, Romans 10:9, Hebrews 11:6, James 1:21, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2 note: this is not an all inclusive list..
Then in Romans chapter 3 verse 24 continues…
...and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 3:24
Romans 3:24 is saying we are justified by Christ's sacrifice, it does not say specific individuals were pre-picked before time began. Though God predestined the plan for salvation through Jesus' sacrifice Christ's sacrifice happened after time began and is available for all.
This website had another interesting statement:
"I would like to introduce a couple of terms: Arminianism and Calvinism. Essentially, Arminianism states that man is able, by his own free will, to choose or reject God and that Jesus died for everyone who ever lived. Calvinism states that it is God alone who chooses who is saved, not man, and that Jesus died only for the Christians."
Died only for the Christians? Well, actually you don't become a Christian until you accept Jesus.
Jesus died for sinners, not Christians. If we were already Christians Jesus wouldn't have needed to die for our sins... I guess this is another case where "all" doen't mean "all". I guess we can chuck John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him (not just "Christians" chosen before time began) shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:16-17
Anyway, if it was determined from the begining who would go to hell and who wouldn't then we don't need a savior, Jesus, God could have made what He already determined to happen without sacrificing His son.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
http://www.freewill-predestination.com
posted by David Bennett | 3:54 PM
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